Times Radio with John Pienaar: Cyber security and the NCSC annual review

The state threat is ever present, particularly when it comes to espionage. But really, if we look at the most disruptive attacks we've had this year, so M&S, Co-op and Jaguar Land Rover in the last month or so. They are definitely not kind of directed or tasked by the Russian state. So it's really cybercrime that is having the biggest impact on the UK at the moment, not China or Russia or Iran or North Korea."