Ep. 140 Could Britain Lead on Migration, Rule of Law, and Public Health?

In this week's episode, Jane and Jason are joined by Michael Stephens, Senior Fellow at Global Nation and a Senior Associate Fellow at RUSI. Mike’s new report, 'Rules Britannia' is being launched today, and is full of proposals for how Britain can help Order the Disorder. Mike and his co-authors are trying to build a broad consensus across political parties and traditions, to advance 'a unifying vision of Britain's role in the world that is grounded in our national values'.

Delving into the topic, the panel talk about opportunities for the UK to play a leading role in areas that it’s good at: rule of law, international finance and public health. These are the domains where there can be cross-party support rooted in a sense of Britain's comparative advantages. We also discuss why Ukraine has - so far - been a unifying cause for Brits, with successive prime ministers committed to supporting the country's independence with military assistance - in stark contrast to the US. And who else can Britain work with in a 'global middle-power alliance' to 'change the calculations of the rule-breakers that are currently upending the international order' (per the report), while also trying to persuade the US not to abandon that order wholesale? In one of the punchier moments of debate, Jason questions why migration is dominating the headlines and why no one right now in British politics seems to want to make the positive case for attracting the best talent from around the world.

Producer: George McDonagh

Britain in the World - A joint Global Nation RUSI event hosting a cross-party discussion on the role of the UK in the world: https://my.rusi.org/events/britain-in-the-world.html

Hassan Damluji, Michael Stephens and Anna Hope  - Rules Britannia: How a foreign policy guided by fair play can keep Britain safe and promote economic growth https://globalnation.world/publications/rules-britannia-how-a-foreign-policy-guided-by-fair-play-can-promote-economic-growth-and-keep-britain-safe/

Britain rules out backing for global defence bank - Reuters https://apple.news/AjpCOumOZTFaB9wBe7VJH1w

Steve Bloomfield, International Editor of The Observer, Since when did the Foreign Office become a demotion? https://observer.co.uk/news/politics/article/since-when-did-the-foreign-office-become-a-demotio

Was this a missed opportunity for Britain to lead on financing defence for democratic allies? Britain rules out backing global defence bank - https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/britain-rules-out-backing-global-defence-bank-2025-09-04/

Background on today’s angry debate about migration in Britain: The “Boriswave” – how the Conservative government that was elected to “get Brexit done” adopted policies that massively boosted migration (from outside the EU) - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2025/02/the-boriswave-problem